DataDan:

Your comment about "the bars acting in the wrong direction" on the Honda simulator suggests that either Honda made a big mistake, or you don't understand the control input required to steer a motorcycle. If Honda indeed failed to implement the effect of countersteering (here's a good scientific reference -- 260K PDF), that should be easy enough to correct by reversing a sign somewhere in the code.

I'm not familiar with the literature on aircraft simulator training effectiveness, only with its widespread use in general, military, and commercial aviation. And a quick search didn't turn up any negative assessments.

As to "watching 'the movie'", as with porn, participating is much better than just watching. MSF currently uses videos in training, but I'm not very confident of their effectiveness. Training a rider's eyes and brain to anticipate and react requires more than just watching a situation unfold and discussing tactics. He must repetitively practice visual and cognitive patterns in real-time. That's what I see as the benefit of riding experience--learning what can happen, picking up cues that it's about to happen, and figuring out how to make it not happen. The problem with the real world is that the consequences of a mistake are severe. The theory of the simulator is to train the brain without bruising the body.

Yes, I'm familiar with how the control input works. The (possible) reversed steering, is based on a phone call with a rep from a local Honda distributor. (I'll try to confirm when I get a chance) Whatever the fact is, he defended any missmatch, arguing this isn't a simulator and it's not meant for developing manuvering skills. But this is not what it says on the web site.

"Riding Trainer, designed to help trainees learn to control and to develop the ability to foresee and avoid hazardous situations."

You wrote: " participating is much better than just watching". To 'watching', I also wrote reflecting upon.. Even though one don't respond physically to situations, learning takes place -- if the material makes sense and the trainee is motivated to learn. He/she will reflect. Even if one do not experience what you are asking, still it may be valuable as a tool -- the same way as pen and paper can be used as a tool when developing insights about the world.

Using MS flight simulator as a reference for how well simulators actually are, is an excelent example. I have used it probably 20 hours towards my instrument rating. But for navigational and IFR procedures which is knowledge and mental skills that is applied to other tasks -- that the simulator can not help one with. In doing this, I used the 4 arrow keys on the keyboard. It would be no use to use stick and rudder pedals since I have already developed skills for how to control an aircraft. Actually, I should on purpose make my flight simulator controlls as unreal as possible, to avoid interference problems.

For commercial aviation, it's not so much to blame the simulator itself but more what people is doing with it. It's the coding of 'incorrect' responses, which is likely to take place anytime when practicing various but similar tasks that require triggering of complete different responses. That usually happens when pilots transition to other aircrafts. It's a huge problem for fixed wing pilots who transition to helicopters. The effect from it is clear when a car driver try to turn an airplane on the taxiway. He will turn the 'wheel' right to turn right -- even though he's aware of (a) it doesn't help and (b) it can't help since he knows the wheel is not connected to the front wheel and (c) he knows very well you are supposed to steer with the pedals. Still, most don't touch the pedals but turns the 'wheel'. The AA flight 587 crash in NY might be the most famous example with simulator training problems.

I have no reason to 'dump' it (yet), but maybe it 'smells' a little warning flag when the rep seems to be ignorant about the facts that bad simulations is common and is sometimes among the worst thing one can do. I'm not arguing against the good things a trainer could offer -- I'm arguing against possible negative effects that obviously seems to be ignored. If commercial airlines do have problems, I guess a 'world' that is 'zillions' miles behind could run into problems to.